The
comments here were made from February 3rd - 8th 2016 on
my friend Dave Sterrett’s Facebook page. His ministry, Disruptive Truth,
released a video talking about the dangers of abortion. He cites biblical and
scientific examples proving that the unborn are distinct living and whole human
beings and that it is wrong to kill them. He also has testimonies by a former
Planned Parenthood clinic director, former Planned Parenthood employee, and a
survivor of a failed abortion. It is an amazing video and is very well done.
I
usually don’t engage on comment feed discussions or debates, but I saw the
initial comment made by 80 year-old Austin Shepherd and decided to reply to him
in hopes of helping him to understand the Pro-Life position, of which he seems
to grievously misunderstand.
I
have talked to a LOT of pro-abortion-choice advocates over the years. I can
usually pick up on their arguments and trace the logic that they are using to a
few misunderstandings or misinformation. Having trained under Students For Life
of America and reading apologetics books by Scott Klusendorf and Greg Koukl, I
am pretty familiar with most pro-abortion-choice arguments. I kept up this
discussion with Mr Shepherd in hopes of understanding his line of logic so that
I could accurately confront it and discuss it with him. After 4 days of
conversing with him on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that this man
is either A) Schizophrenic B) Insane C) pure evil or D) he is not alright in
the head due to old age. Anyway, I have never seen any argument or line of
illogic thought quite like this. It makes absolutely no sense. It’s the type of
thinking, logic, and talking that you would expect from a serial killer.
Someone who is like this must truly be a scary individual.
The
reason I share this conversation is for edification. So people can see what
type of people are out there, how Pro-Life advocates act and talk, and how some
pro-abortion-choice Christians think. I have tried very hard to make sense out
of his claims, but I seriously can’t understand any of it.
Enjoy the read
and let me know what you think
Dave Sterrett
February 1 at 3:10pm ·
|
The full "We Choose
Life" video featuring real answers, real stories, real hope. Inspiring
stories by Lila Rose, Melissa Ohden, Ramona Trevino: Pro-Life Speaker.
Watch. Share and Discuss with
your Small Group.
Free small groups curriculum
available at www.wechooselife.info
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Austin Shepherd Anti abortion people
are preventing the fetus from going to heaven thus advocating a childhood of
abuse and torture. That isn't God's way. God chooses who lives or dies if we
let.Him. God is.almighty, why not let him have His way. You child.abuse
advocates should be arrested.
Like · Reply · 2 · February
3 at 11:17pm
Nick Bell So would you advocate for
killing toddlers that were being killed? Your logic seems to imply that people
should allow toddlers to be killed and go to heaven in order to prevent a life
of disappointment and pain.
Like · Reply · 3 · February
4 at 2:05am
Austin Shepherd Just opposite Nick
Bell, just the fetus before natural birth. I agree with the Supreme Court. Also
I strongly believe God is all powerful so can and does choose who.should be
born. He gave us freedom of choice which allows for abortion which provides the
path to heaven before technically a viable child who as unwanted would be
subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. When looking at issues it is
important to use common sense as the court did. God is almighty and all knowing
so when promoting anti abortion you are going against God's plan.
Like · Reply · 1 · February
4 at 9:34am
Austin Shepherd Some people complain
about Planned Parenthood but in reality should also complain about preachers
who pray on emotions because that also causes unthinking people to donate money
to them. Churches need our support but for the purpose of promoting salvation,
not propaganda that promotes child abuse and lining pockets.
Like · Reply · 1 · February
4 at 9:40am
Nick Bell You still didn't answer my
question. Why is killing toddlers to send them to heaven and to save them from
a hard life any different than killing them in the womb?
Also, I don't understand why you think that every
child that is born is subjected to abuse and torture.
Like · Reply · 1 · February 4 at 10:35am
Like · Reply · 1 · February 4 at 10:35am
Austin Shepherd The reason is because
you have been brainwashed and closed mind to logic. Read the Supreme Court
ruling about the issue. A toddler is real life and fetus is prelife. God
invented us so just use a little.open minded brain power. The majority of
people are not Christian and a large number have pleasure experience that
results in pregnancy and is not wanted. God planned all this and I suppose He
knew that population control would be needed someday and allows it just as He
allows antiabortion people to promote their cause which is certainly more
inhumane than abortion since a fetus can go to heaven while.an unwanted child ,
especially in non.christian countries and environments. The difference between
the outside and me is that I trust God and His almighty power and you trust the
thinking similar to those who put Jesus on.th cross.
Like · Reply · 1 · February
4 at 1:37pm
Nick Bell I've read the Supreme Court
ruling. And I've read the comments by the justices that say that if science
could prove that the unborn are in fact human, then Roe v Wade would fall
apart.
I have not been brainwashed. I used to not care about
abortion. But ever since I started studying embryology 5 years ago, my view on
abortion changed. Science tells us that the unborn are distinct living and
whole human beings from the moment of conception. There is no difference
between them and us that justifies killing them in the womb. Everything you are
right now, biologically, was there at your conception. Nothing was added to
you. Everything was right there from the beginning. I trust what science says
over what court rulings say. The Supreme Court also said that black slaves were
not humans under the law. The Nazi government said that Jews were sub humans.
Just like with the case of abortion, we know from science that the slaves and
the Jews are just as much human as us, regardless of what the law of the land
says.
Also, population control is not needed. The myth that
the earth is over populated had long been debunked.
Like · Reply · 3 · February
4 at 7:42pm
Dave Sterrett Austin
Shepherd, that makes absolutely no sense. You're tying to argue that
we're "brainwashed and closed minded to LOGIC?" Bless your heart.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · February
4 at 7:45pm
Nick Bell You claim that you are a
Christian and believe in God and trust Him and His word, I suggest looking to what
He has to say about this issue:
There are many verses in scripture that confirm what
science tells us about the humanity of the preborn:
• “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before
you were born, I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
-Jeremiah 1:5
• Exodus 21:22-25 sets a punishment for a man who
injures a pregnant woman and causes premature birth or death of the child.
"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth
prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever
the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious
injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for
hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
• "For You formed my inward parts; You covered me
in my mother's womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully
made; marvelous are Your works and that my soul knows well. My frame was not
hidden from You, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the
lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed, and
in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet
there were none of them" -Psalm 139:13-16
• Paul says that God "set [him] apart even from
[his] mother's womb." - Galatians 1:15
• The twins in Rebekah’s womb, “The children struggled
together within her.” - Genesis 25:22
• “When Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe
[John] leaped in her
womb.” (The word “babe” or brephos used in this verse
is same used to refer to the babies after they are born) -Luke 1:41
• In Psalm 51:5, David refers to himself in the womb
as "I" and "me".
• Isaiah 49:1. He says, "The LORD called Me from
the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me."
• John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit
"while yet in his mother's womb". - Luke 1:15
• Job argues that it is God's work in the womb that
compels him to not mistreat his servant. "Did not He who made me in the
womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb?" - Job 31:13-15
• Amos condemns the Ammonites "because they
ripped open expectant mothers in Gilead" -Amos 1:13
• Judges 13:1-7 Manoah's wife is told not to drink
wine or strong drink because the child she was carrying in her womb was a
Nazarite. The law applied to the unborn child in this case. The unborn child
obviously is alive or it would not be required to keep the law.
• "In the womb he [Jacob] grasped his brother's
heel; as a man he struggled with God." -Hosea 12:3
• "His mother Mary was pledged to be married to
Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through
the Holy Spirit . . . an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said,
"Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife,
because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." -Matthew
1:18-20
• “But when He who had set me apart before I was born,
and had called me through His grace." -Galatians 1:15
• The Lord Jesus Christ began his incarnation as an
embryo, growing into a fetus, infant, child, teenager, and adult: "While
they were there, the time came for the baby to born, and she gave birth to her
firstborn, a son" -Luke 2:6-7
• "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ for giving us through Christ every possible spiritual benefit as
citizens of heaven! For consider what he has done- before the foundation of the
world He chose us to become, in Christ, His holy and blameless children living
within His constant care" -Ephesians 1:3-4
Like · Reply · 4 · February
4 at 7:49pm
Nick Bell There are also Verses that
encourage a Christian to respond to the abortion issue:
• “Rescue those being led away to death; hold back
those staggering toward slaughter.” –Proverbs 24:11
• “Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain
the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them
from the hand of the wicked.” –Psalm 82:3-4
• “There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are
detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent
blood...” –Proverbs 6:16-17
• Abortion destroys something that God is actively
creating, and as Job 1:21 tells us, God alone has the right to give and take
life.
God’s view of children
• "Be fertile and multiply" -Genesis 1:28
• “Sons are a heritage from the LORD, children a
reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's
youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to
shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate.” - Psalm 127: 3-5
• "See that you do not look down on one of these
little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of
my Father in heaven." -Matthew 18:10
• "But Jesus called the children to him and said,
‘Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of
God belongs to such as these.’" -Luke 18:16
• "Your Father in heaven is not willing that any
of these little ones should be lost." - Matthew 18:14
Scripture tells us God’s view of children:
• "Be fertile and multiply" -Genesis 1:28
• “Sons are a heritage from the LORD, children a
reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's
youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to
shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate.” - Psalm 127: 3-5
• "See that you do not look down on one of these
little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of
my Father in heaven." -Matthew 18:10
• "But Jesus called the children to him and said,
‘Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of
God belongs to such as these.’" -Luke 18:16
• "Your Father in heaven is not willing that any
of these little ones should be lost." - Matthew 18:14
As well as On His views of bloodshed and killing
children:
• The killing of children is especially condemned by
God through the prophets. In the land God gave his people to occupy, foreign
nations had the custom of sacrificing some of their children in fire. God told
His people that they were not to share in this sin. They did, however, as Psalm
106 relates: "They mingled with the nations and learned their works...They
sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons, and they shed innocent
blood, the blood of their sons and their daughters, whom they sacrificed to the
idols of Canaan, desecrating the land with bloodshed" -Psalm 106:35, 37-38
• "Trample my courts no more! Bring no more
worthless offerings...Your festivals I detest...When you spread out your hands,
I close my eyes to you; though you pray the more, I will not listen. Your hands
are full of blood! Wash yourselves clean...learn to do good. Make justice your
aim: redress the wronged, hear the orphan’s plea, and defend the widow"
-Isaiah 1:13-17
• "The LORD brings death and makes alive; he
brings down to the grave and raises up." -1 Samuel 2:6
• "You shall not commit murder." -Exodus
20:13
• "Do not give any of your children to be
sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the
LORD." -Leviticus 18:21
• "The LORD said . . . 'Any Israelite or any
alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to
death. The people of the community are to stone him. . . . by giving his
children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. . .
. If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of
his children to Molech . . . I will set my face against that man and his family
and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him . . ."
-Leviticus 20:1-5
• "Do this so that innocent blood will not be
shed in your land, which the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance,
and so that you will not be guilty of bloodshed." -Deuteronomy 19:10
• "The LORD sent Babylonian, Aramean, Moabite and
Ammonite raiders against him. He sent them to destroy Judah, in accordance with
the word of the LORD proclaimed by his servants the prophets. Surely these
things happened to Judah according to the
Lord's command, in order to remove them from his
presence because of the sins of Manasseh and all he had done, including the
shedding of innocent blood. For he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood, and
the LORD was not willing to forgive." -2 Kings 24:2-4
• "The LORD said, 'What have you done? Listen!
Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.’" -Genesis 4:10
• "For God will deliver the needy who cry out,
the afflicted who have no one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the
needy and save the needy from death. He will rescue them from oppression and
violence, for precious is their blood in his sight." - Psalm 72:12-14
• "Therefore as surely as I live, declares the
Sovereign LORD, I will give you over to bloodshed and it will pursue you. Since
you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you." -Ezekiel 35:6
• "I call heaven and earth to record this day
against you, that I have set before
you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore
choose life that both thou and thy seed may live." -Deuteronomy 30:19
Like · Reply · 3 · February
4 at 7:54pm
Dave Sterrett Nick
Bell has just taken Austin Shepherd
back to school.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · February
4 at 7:59pm
Janice Toirkens Austin, God never
intended anyone to be so open minded that their brain would fall out. In no way
does God condone abortion.
Like · Reply · 2 · February
4 at 9:35pm
Austin Shepherd It is amazing, Nick
Bell , Janice Toirkens, Dave Sterrett and other radical antiabortion people are
how you quote all these good scriptures but don't
understand that God, the God of the Bible, the one who masterminded the Bible
has and does control everthing according to how He allows it to be. Yes, by all
means you are brainwashed and unable to identify common sense reality. It is
totally amazing to me that you don't want to believe God made even you after
having put this earth together. You are trying to convince us that God chooses
to have little children out competing with the rats for food. Now that isn't
the God that created the heavens and earth. As an aborted fetus those would be
in heaven but for you cruel close minded advocates for child abuse. God is
almighty inspite of you cruel people. Go tell the Upchurch ed nations of the
world that you appear to think it okay for unwanted children to compete with
rats for food and be used as sex toys. Even an idiot knows it isn't right to
mistreat children. All the above scriptures are good for their purpose but God
is looking at the whole picture. And yes, you anti abortion people are
brainwashed to the point logic is meaningless to you. Oh yes,and to say the
world isn't becoming over populated is talking total insanity. You people just
blow my mind promoting child abuse but on the other hand indicating you are
Christians . As I've mentioned before, you are of the same greater than thou
bunch that put Jesus on the cross. I sure wish you would step back and really
look at yourselves and the non logic you are promoting. Don't you feel at
least.a little compassion for abused children, especially ones who got here
because of your lack of understanding and knowing God's will and alknowing
power.
Like · Reply · February
4 at 10:39pm
Dan Kranz Dave and Nick, my kinda
guys.....thank you for speaking for children in the womb, for speaking against
evil. God bless!
Unlike · Reply · 2 · February
4 at 10:41pm
Austin Shepherd Sad Dan that you go
along with advocates of.child abuse. I hope you don't sleep well as certainly
abuse children are being tortured because of your kind. Why don't you recognize
God as our almighty one.
Like · Reply · February
4 at 10:48pm
Janice Toirkens Austin, Nope, you're
wrong. God gives us free will. You're the one trying to brainwash people. All
that crap you're talking about is the devil. That's who you are promoting. Are
you a member of Westboro Baptist?
Like · Reply · February
4 at 10:51pm · Edited
Austin Shepherd God is the judge
Janice Toirkens and I'm thankful that God has a plan that puts children
in.heaven inspite of your non thinking opinion
Like · Reply · February
4 at 10:52pm
Janice Toirkens He is, and you are
advocating the murder of innocent children.
Like · Reply · February
4 at 10:58pm
Austin Shepherd Complain to God since
He makes the decision.
Like · Reply · February
4 at 11:18pm
Dan Kranz Mr. Shepard, you are advocating
the murder of children in the womb plain and simple. You're rhetoric has no
merit. "Partial-Birth Abortion is a procedure in which the abortionist
pulls a living baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal
(vagina), except for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged
just inside the cervix (the opening to the womb). The abortionist punctures the
base of the baby’s skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical
scissors or a pointed hollow metal tube called a trochar. He then inserts a
catheter (tube) into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful
suction machine. This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist
completes the delivery of the now-dead baby." From conception on
"Thou shalt not kill" "I've noticed that everyone who is for
abortion is already born" President Ronald Reagan
Like · Reply · 1 · February
5 at 12:45am
Austin Shepherd Emotions are okay but
logic and reality shouldmcause.you to realize you emotional description is
nasty but putting a fetus in heaven.. Common sense and reality should tell you
heaven is a good place. What you want to.happen is a child be born and cast
into years of abuse and torture. The.scumbag who filmed the PP footage should
have, if he were actually an honest caring person, went out and filmed the
children going through the.garbage for food or cuddled together with others
trying to keep warm because his type helped stop the fetus from being admitted
to heaven before birth. Thousands of unwanted children are living in agony day
in and day out because they weren't given the opportunity to go to heaven
birth. Sure wish you non thinking.anti abortion people had to go out and.actually
experience living with the.cold and rats for a.few days. God made provisions
for the fetus, antiabortion people work to overrule it, but it is the unwanted
child that suffers. God is.almighty and also the only judge, why not follow
Him?
Like · Reply · February
5 at 9:48am
Dan Kranz Austin Shepherd have you
accepted Jesus as your Savior, sought forgiveness for your sins and welcomed
Him into your heart. If you have not, I would be glad to share the Gospel with
you privately.
Like · Reply · February
5 at 3:39pm
Patricia Camp Bain I don't even know
where to start...so Austin, I will pray for you.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · February
5 at 3:40pm
Austin Shepherd Thankyou Patricia Camp
Bain, I pray for your you promoters of child.abuse to but much more for the
innocent children you are forcing into a childhood of torture.
Like · Reply · February
5 at 3:48pm
Austin Shepherd Dan, you and your sick
anti abortion bunch need Jesus in the worst way.I accepted Jesus into my heart
at.age eight and have served him for the next 70 or so years. Your are of the
same mentality as those who put Jesus on the cross. Wake up, you really need
your eyes opened. Anyone who promotes child.abuse is not very nice. A fetus in
heaven is no comparison to advocating child torture. When blind then you can't
see sane logic.
Like · Reply · February
5 at 3:54pm
Dan Kranz You claim to be a follower of
Jesus the Son of the Living God, but in the same breath advocate tearing
children in the womb limb from limb, a most hideous torture if their ever was
one. You have seen the videos, you know what happens to these children, they
are tortured and killed, you are as guilty as the abortionist and have blood on
your hands and then you try to invoke the name of God in your sick twisted
barbaric "logic", unless you repent of this evil, you will be forever
lost for eternity. Turn from this evil and seek forgiveness. "Their will
be weeping and gnashing of teeth". How dare you call what is abhorrent and
evil to our Lord good! You will be without excuse before the Judgement Seat of
God.
Like · Reply · 1 · February
6 at 5:04am
Austin Shepherd If you read the story
of Jesus being put on the cross then you have a picture of yourself. Those
people were scumbag, bar nun but you are letting false emotions rule over
common sense. If you have the ability to understand what you read I'd recommend
reading about Noahs Ark and how many fetus and lives were lost. Next read about
Sodam and Gamorah and with just a bit of grey matter you can figure out that
fetus and humans lost their lives. Part of the point is that God controlled
those incidents and has more than enough power to control abortion or any other
thing He wishes to control. You can read, and I personally believe, can move
mountains. He as power to do anything He wishes and He created heavens and
earth and everything else but you can't comprehend that so let your emotions
justify allowing unwanted children to filch with the rats for food. Five or ten
seconds of pain is certainly better than years of suffering if a fetus is
allowed to be born into an unwanted environment. Common sense is a practical
thing but a warped uncontrolled emotional mind doesn't function properly. Look
at all the healing and miracles Jesus performed but people who think like Dan
or other anti abortion people are unable to look past emotion, etc and see that
God is totally in control. Jesus said," forgive them for they know not
what they do, " so the Dans and anti abortion people can hope it applies
to them as I also think it does. Ten seconds of hideous torture is better than
several years trying to survive in a hostile world. Why don't you heartless
antiabortion people mount a movement to sign up people to adopt babies so they
miss the abortion process and immediately get placed into a loving environment.
It may sound simple but currently is totally impossible because of the high
volume of births around the world. God saw this so provided for abortion. As in
the case of Sodom and Gamorah, God deals harshly with non Christian society. I
pray you antiabortion people will begin to understand God and His all knowing
ways. Twisted and barbaric is certainly an appropriate description of the non
thinking anti abortion people.
Like · Reply · February
6 at 10:21am
Nick Bell Austin, nobody here is promoting
torture or child abuse. I think I speak for everyone here by saying we are
against child abuse.
You seem to think that every child that is born will
be abused and tortured. That is simply not true.
According to your logic, we should kill all children
to save from possible child abuse.
We are against abortion for the same reason we are
against child abuse, torture, and rape. Those are awful sinful acts that
greatly harm an innocent human being. Scripture tells us to stand up against
those things and to stop them from happening. That's what we are doing. If I
saw someone abusing a child, I would top them from doing so. If I saw someone
killing a child I would stop them from doing so. How is that wrong? We seek to
put an end to violence.
Like · Reply · 1 · February
6 at 10:45am
Austin Shepherd That is why God, I say
God, made the provision for abortion of the fetus. Your head is really in the
sand if you think overruling God is going to stop what is happening. You are
putting the cart before the horse. Until a workable plan is in place with
thousands of responsible people and facilities in place you are continuing to
promote child abuse. When you are trying to force unwanted children to be born
then you are promoting.child abuse. I don't understand how you are even.smart
enough to get out of bed in the morning if you can't see how you are forcing
child abuse on innocent children. A fetus goes to heaven or at least if you
don't believe that should see that a minute of trauma is better than several
years of abuse. God is in control but you do gooders are doing just like the
religious heroes that put Jesus on the cross. Our Supreme Court isn't perfect nor
God fearing in my opinion but they did figure out how to protect the fetus, of
course since you think it was okay to crucify Jesus you won't agree with the
court either. In my opinion you should be given jail time for even for even
mentioning killing children. You are committing even through and through. You
talk out of both.sides of your mouth, stopping.abortion is promoting child
abuse. Wake up man! Oh I know you want to get tied up in emotions but reality
is fact and unwanted children are forced into abuse because they have no
protection because society can only handle 5% at most of unwanted births. God
has it set up to handle all unwanted fetus but you non thinking narrow minded
bigots are working against Him
Like · Reply · February
6 at 12:29pm
Nick Bell Look man, me and several others
have tried having civil discussions with you trying to figure out what you are
talking about. You have done nothing but personally attack people trying to
have a reasonable discussion with you and hurl accusations at them that utterly
and ridiculously false. You are the only one here advocating for any type of
violence. Nobody here supports child abuse, so I ask you to stop saying we do.
You say that all children that are born are abused. That is not true. It's a
terrible for people to abuse children. The solution to child abuse is not to
kill the children, it is to stop and punish the abusers. Scripture tells us it
is wrong to murder, that is all that prolifers are saying: that it is wrong to
murder. You are saying the exact opposite. You are saying that you support
murdering children to prevent them from the chance of being abused. You said
that we "should be given Jail time for even mentioning killing
children". This makes no sense. We are trying to STOP people from killing
children. YOU are the one advocating for killing children. You say that God
says killing innocent children is good and should be done, yet you have not
given one iota of biblical evidence to support your claim. I, on the other hand
have given you dozens and dozens of biblical references that shows that killing
innocent people is wrong.
Nowhere in scripture has God said it was okay to
murder innocent people. In fact, scripture says the exact opposite. There were
pagan societies mentioned in scripture that sacrificed children, God said that
they were wrong, yet you are promoting it as a good thing hen scripture clearly
says it is wrong and God hates the shedding of innocent blood.
Like · Reply · February
6 at 1:36pm
Nick Bell Leviticus 20:2-5 states, “Say to
the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who
sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of
the community are to stone him. I myself will set my face against him and will
cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has
defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. If the members of the community
close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if
they fail to put him to death, I myself will set my face against him and his
family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him
in prostituting themselves to Molek.’” Many other Old Testament passages affirm
God’s zero-tolerance for child sacrifice.
Sadly, King Solomon became involved in this horrendous
practice, as recorded in 1 Kings 11:4-11, “As Solomon grew old, his wives turned
his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his
God, as the heart of David his father had been. He followed Ashtoreth the
goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. So
Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD. . . . On a hill east of Jerusalem,
Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for
Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. . . . The LORD became angry with
Solomon because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who
had appeared to him twice. Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other
gods, Solomon did not keep the LORD’s command.”
Later, the evil king Manassah offered his own son as a
sacrifice (2 Kings 21:6), as did King Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:1-4). The people of
Judah participated in this crime against their own sons—a sin so “detestable”
that God said it had never even crossed His mind (Jeremiah 32:35). Child
sacrifice was one reason for the Babylonian captivity (verse 36).
Today, child sacrifice is practiced throughout the
world. There has been a resurgence of child sacrifice in Uganda. Witch doctors
have been implicated in the mutilation and death of children who were killed in
an effort to bring good fortune and wealth to those willing to pay for it.
There is also a correlation between child sacrifice and modern-day abortion.
Unprecedented numbers of children have been “sacrificed” at the hands of
abortionists for the sake of convenience, immorality, or pride. Hundreds of
thousands of babies have been killed so that their parents can maintain a
certain lifestyle. God hates “hands that shed innocent blood” (Proverbs 6:17),
and we can be sure that God will judge this horrendous sin.
You are advocating for the very things these passages
say God hates and disapproves of.
We have given nothing but scientific and biblical
facts. Not opinions. All that we have said is backed by both science and
scripture. Where do your logic and claims come from?
Like · Reply · February
6 at 1:39pm
Nick Bell I seriously want to understand
where you are coming from. I truly do. If you are right, I want to understand
your position and how it lines up with scripture and science. But I can't
understand what you're saying or where you're coming from if you aren't acting
civil and stop hurling accusations.
Like · Reply · February
6 at 1:43pm
Austin Shepherd I'm trying to act
civil but when some brings up scriptures totally unrelated to abortion or
science it gives me the feeling.you.could care less about the issue of abortion
and as related to.child abuse or science ruled on by the US Supreme Court. At
least those.that crucified Jesus didn't have the court on their side as is true
with the.abortion.issue
I don't understand how you continue to go.against.God.
Even though unrelated to this abortion issue it points out that God takes.care
of important issues. I'm sure.glad you don't believe in child.sacrefice but can
promote chid.abuse. The Bible addresses abortion indirectly over and over
as.examples I've pointed out but you ignore. The total proof that God approves
abortion is that He allows it when He could stop is anytime. My inclination is
to think you may be.playing up the issue to get the unthinking to send you
money. Money is the root of all evil, at least that is the most common saying.
I have helped support feeding kids in Calcutta where they were feedin.about
30,000 per day a few years back. I do still contrive but indirectly and a.very
small amount so don't keep up with numbers, etc now. Anyway, you have to divide
God's word rightly in order to understand how terrible you are treating
unwanted children. God will do the judging no matter what you think. I hope you
aren't in it for he money because I suspect God wouldn't judge you very kindly.
Like · Reply · February
6 at 4:00pm
Austin Shepherd I certainly agree and
it is anyone who buys into radical antiabortion propaganda. I can't imagine a
Christian that doesn't believe God has the power to control or do anything.
Those smart religious leaders who put Jesus on the cross did it knowing that He
healed the sick and other miracles and we have plenty of proof from seeing and
experiencing particularly healing happen now. And yes Dan Kranz it is sad that
you don't believe God is all powerful or maybe you haven't seen or had miracle
healing. I have so know God is almighty. Thankfully I haven't run across anyone
personally that believes it is okay to torture children. You are really sick
but not alone as can see from the other posts. A fetus in.heaven.versus a child
allowed to be born into tortures should get your kind a good stiff prison
sentence.
Like · Reply · February
6 at 10:37pm
Nick Bell You do know that there is NO
money to be made in being a pro-life activist, right? Those who have jobs in it
hardly make any money. I've worked at local, state, and national pro-life
organizations and haven't met anyone who is in it for the money. It's the exact
opposite. I've actually met people who have turned down corporate jobs that
paid 6 figures in order to work for the pro-life movement and make next to
nothing. I honestly can't continue this dialogue. You are accusing people of
things they never said, stating things that simply are not true. You have been
insulting and rude and inciting violence since your very first comment. You
haven't been the least bit civil or nice, even when we have been that to you.
You simply have no clue what pro-life people advocate for. I assume you have met
some very twisted illogical people who claim to be prolife and also support
child abuse. And on behalf of all pro-life people, I apologize for the actions
of those people. They do not represent any of the non-violent beliefs of the
pro-life movement. I urge you to actually WATCH the video that you are
commenting on. There are people in the interview that were abortion clinic
directors and survivors of failed abortions. I personally know 3 of the people
in the video. I think if you actually watch it, your eyes will be opened up to
what exactly the pro-life movement is and what those who support life and
non-violence are like. I hope that you come to an understanding of what the
pro-life movement actually is and what they support. I wish you the best. God bless
Like · Reply · February
8 at 1:12pm
Austin Shepherd Facts that don't fit
your model apparently sound insulting to you. What sounds insulting to me is
anyone who advocates child abuse.as you and your ilk are doing. I watched the
movie and saw well meaning people trying to overrule God's plan and denigh ing
His sovereignty. It is sad that you people are so blind that you can't look at
news reports, etc.showing unwanted children suffering because your kind, in
part, try to convince women to have unwanted babies that then end up uncared
for. If you are insulted.because you are promoting child abuse that is good and
sadly you are not being punished for such terrible behaviour. I'm sorry you
are.so.stubborn but that is typically how.radicals act.
Like · Reply · February
8 at 3:12pm
wow that was so sad and painful to read. 😢 keep standing strong for those who can't themselves. a reward is waiting and persecution here is just a part of a fallen world. so hard to get through that.
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