Monday, February 8, 2016

Confusing Pro-Abortion-Choice Christian Logic

Trying to follow his logic like.....
The comments here were made from February 3rd - 8th 2016 on my friend Dave Sterrett’s Facebook page. His ministry, Disruptive Truth, released a video talking about the dangers of abortion. He cites biblical and scientific examples proving that the unborn are distinct living and whole human beings and that it is wrong to kill them. He also has testimonies by a former Planned Parenthood clinic director, former Planned Parenthood employee, and a survivor of a failed abortion. It is an amazing video and is very well done.

I usually don’t engage on comment feed discussions or debates, but I saw the initial comment made by 80 year-old Austin Shepherd and decided to reply to him in hopes of helping him to understand the Pro-Life position, of which he seems to grievously misunderstand.

I have talked to a LOT of pro-abortion-choice advocates over the years. I can usually pick up on their arguments and trace the logic that they are using to a few misunderstandings or misinformation. Having trained under Students For Life of America and reading apologetics books by Scott Klusendorf and Greg Koukl, I am pretty familiar with most pro-abortion-choice arguments. I kept up this discussion with Mr Shepherd in hopes of understanding his line of logic so that I could accurately confront it and discuss it with him. After 4 days of conversing with him on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that this man is either A) Schizophrenic B) Insane C) pure evil or D) he is not alright in the head due to old age. Anyway, I have never seen any argument or line of illogic thought quite like this. It makes absolutely no sense. It’s the type of thinking, logic, and talking that you would expect from a serial killer. Someone who is like this must truly be a scary individual.

The reason I share this conversation is for edification. So people can see what type of people are out there, how Pro-Life advocates act and talk, and how some pro-abortion-choice Christians think. I have tried very hard to make sense out of his claims, but I seriously can’t understand any of it.

Enjoy the read and let me know what you think

Dave Sterrett
February 1 at 3:10pm ·
The full "We Choose Life" video featuring real answers, real stories, real hope. Inspiring stories by Lila Rose, Melissa Ohden, Ramona Trevino: Pro-Life Speaker.
Watch. Share and Discuss with your Small Group.
Free small groups curriculum available at

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Austin Shepherd Anti abortion people are preventing the fetus from going to heaven thus advocating a childhood of abuse and torture. That isn't God's way. God chooses who lives or dies if we let.Him. God is.almighty, why not let him have His way. You child.abuse advocates should be arrested.
Like · Reply · 2 · February 3 at 11:17pm

Nick Bell So would you advocate for killing toddlers that were being killed? Your logic seems to imply that people should allow toddlers to be killed and go to heaven in order to prevent a life of disappointment and pain.
Like · Reply · 3 · February 4 at 2:05am

Austin Shepherd Just opposite Nick Bell, just the fetus before natural birth. I agree with the Supreme Court. Also I strongly believe God is all powerful so can and does choose who.should be born. He gave us freedom of choice which allows for abortion which provides the path to heaven before technically a viable child who as unwanted would be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. When looking at issues it is important to use common sense as the court did. God is almighty and all knowing so when promoting anti abortion you are going against God's plan.
Like · Reply · 1 · February 4 at 9:34am

Austin Shepherd Some people complain about Planned Parenthood but in reality should also complain about preachers who pray on emotions because that also causes unthinking people to donate money to them. Churches need our support but for the purpose of promoting salvation, not propaganda that promotes child abuse and lining pockets.
Like · Reply · 1 · February 4 at 9:40am

Nick Bell You still didn't answer my question. Why is killing toddlers to send them to heaven and to save them from a hard life any different than killing them in the womb?
Also, I don't understand why you think that every child that is born is subjected to abuse and torture.
Like · Reply · 1 · February 4 at 10:35am

Austin Shepherd The reason is because you have been brainwashed and closed mind to logic. Read the Supreme Court ruling about the issue. A toddler is real life and fetus is prelife. God invented us so just use a minded brain power. The majority of people are not Christian and a large number have pleasure experience that results in pregnancy and is not wanted. God planned all this and I suppose He knew that population control would be needed someday and allows it just as He allows antiabortion people to promote their cause which is certainly more inhumane than abortion since a fetus can go to heaven unwanted child , especially in non.christian countries and environments. The difference between the outside and me is that I trust God and His almighty power and you trust the thinking similar to those who put Jesus cross.
Like · Reply · 1 · February 4 at 1:37pm

Nick Bell I've read the Supreme Court ruling. And I've read the comments by the justices that say that if science could prove that the unborn are in fact human, then Roe v Wade would fall apart.
I have not been brainwashed. I used to not care about abortion. But ever since I started studying embryology 5 years ago, my view on abortion changed. Science tells us that the unborn are distinct living and whole human beings from the moment of conception. There is no difference between them and us that justifies killing them in the womb. Everything you are right now, biologically, was there at your conception. Nothing was added to you. Everything was right there from the beginning. I trust what science says over what court rulings say. The Supreme Court also said that black slaves were not humans under the law. The Nazi government said that Jews were sub humans. Just like with the case of abortion, we know from science that the slaves and the Jews are just as much human as us, regardless of what the law of the land says.
Also, population control is not needed. The myth that the earth is over populated had long been debunked.
Like · Reply · 3 · February 4 at 7:42pm

Dave Sterrett Austin Shepherd, that makes absolutely no sense. You're tying to argue that we're "brainwashed and closed minded to LOGIC?" Bless your heart.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · February 4 at 7:45pm

Nick Bell You claim that you are a Christian and believe in God and trust Him and His word, I suggest looking to what He has to say about this issue:

There are many verses in scripture that confirm what science tells us about the humanity of the preborn:

• “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born, I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” -Jeremiah 1:5

• Exodus 21:22-25 sets a punishment for a man who injures a pregnant woman and causes premature birth or death of the child. "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

• "For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; marvelous are Your works and that my soul knows well. My frame was not hidden from You, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed, and in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them" -Psalm 139:13-16

• Paul says that God "set [him] apart even from [his] mother's womb." - Galatians 1:15

• The twins in Rebekah’s womb, “The children struggled together within her.” - Genesis 25:22

• “When Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe [John] leaped in her
womb.” (The word “babe” or brephos used in this verse is same used to refer to the babies after they are born) -Luke 1:41

• In Psalm 51:5, David refers to himself in the womb as "I" and "me".

• Isaiah 49:1. He says, "The LORD called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me."

• John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit "while yet in his mother's womb". - Luke 1:15

• Job argues that it is God's work in the womb that compels him to not mistreat his servant. "Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb?" - Job 31:13-15

• Amos condemns the Ammonites "because they ripped open expectant mothers in Gilead" -Amos 1:13

• Judges 13:1-7 Manoah's wife is told not to drink wine or strong drink because the child she was carrying in her womb was a Nazarite. The law applied to the unborn child in this case. The unborn child obviously is alive or it would not be required to keep the law.

• "In the womb he [Jacob] grasped his brother's heel; as a man he struggled with God." -Hosea 12:3
• "His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit . . . an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." -Matthew 1:18-20

• “But when He who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through His grace." -Galatians 1:15

• The Lord Jesus Christ began his incarnation as an embryo, growing into a fetus, infant, child, teenager, and adult: "While they were there, the time came for the baby to born, and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son" -Luke 2:6-7

• "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ for giving us through Christ every possible spiritual benefit as citizens of heaven! For consider what he has done- before the foundation of the world He chose us to become, in Christ, His holy and blameless children living within His constant care" -Ephesians 1:3-4
Like · Reply · 4 · February 4 at 7:49pm

Nick Bell There are also Verses that encourage a Christian to respond to the abortion issue:

• “Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter.” –Proverbs 24:11

• “Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” –Psalm 82:3-4

• “There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood...” –Proverbs 6:16-17

• Abortion destroys something that God is actively creating, and as Job 1:21 tells us, God alone has the right to give and take life.
God’s view of children

• "Be fertile and multiply" -Genesis 1:28

• “Sons are a heritage from the LORD, children a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate.” - Psalm 127: 3-5

• "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven." -Matthew 18:10

• "But Jesus called the children to him and said, ‘Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.’" -Luke 18:16

• "Your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost." - Matthew 18:14

Scripture tells us God’s view of children:

• "Be fertile and multiply" -Genesis 1:28

• “Sons are a heritage from the LORD, children a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate.” - Psalm 127: 3-5

• "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven." -Matthew 18:10

• "But Jesus called the children to him and said, ‘Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.’" -Luke 18:16

• "Your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost." - Matthew 18:14

As well as On His views of bloodshed and killing children:

• The killing of children is especially condemned by God through the prophets. In the land God gave his people to occupy, foreign nations had the custom of sacrificing some of their children in fire. God told His people that they were not to share in this sin. They did, however, as Psalm 106 relates: "They mingled with the nations and learned their works...They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons, and they shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and their daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, desecrating the land with bloodshed" -Psalm 106:35, 37-38

• "Trample my courts no more! Bring no more worthless offerings...Your festivals I detest...When you spread out your hands, I close my eyes to you; though you pray the more, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood! Wash yourselves clean...learn to do good. Make justice your aim: redress the wronged, hear the orphan’s plea, and defend the widow" -Isaiah 1:13-17

• "The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up." -1 Samuel 2:6

• "You shall not commit murder." -Exodus 20:13

• "Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD." -Leviticus 18:21

• "The LORD said . . . 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. . . . by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. . . . If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech . . . I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him . . ." -Leviticus 20:1-5

• "Do this so that innocent blood will not be shed in your land, which the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance, and so that you will not be guilty of bloodshed." -Deuteronomy 19:10

• "The LORD sent Babylonian, Aramean, Moabite and Ammonite raiders against him. He sent them to destroy Judah, in accordance with the word of the LORD proclaimed by his servants the prophets. Surely these things happened to Judah according to the
Lord's command, in order to remove them from his presence because of the sins of Manasseh and all he had done, including the shedding of innocent blood. For he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood, and the LORD was not willing to forgive." -2 Kings 24:2-4

• "The LORD said, 'What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.’" -Genesis 4:10

• "For God will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death. He will rescue them from oppression and violence, for precious is their blood in his sight." - Psalm 72:12-14

• "Therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I will give you over to bloodshed and it will pursue you. Since you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you." -Ezekiel 35:6

• "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before
you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life that both thou and thy seed may live." -Deuteronomy 30:19
Like · Reply · 3 · February 4 at 7:54pm

Dave Sterrett Nick Bell has just taken Austin Shepherd back to school.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · February 4 at 7:59pm

Janice Toirkens Austin, God never intended anyone to be so open minded that their brain would fall out. In no way does God condone abortion.
Like · Reply · 2 · February 4 at 9:35pm

Austin Shepherd It is amazing, Nick Bell , Janice Toirkens, Dave Sterrett and other radical antiabortion people are
how you quote all these good scriptures but don't understand that God, the God of the Bible, the one who masterminded the Bible has and does control everthing according to how He allows it to be. Yes, by all means you are brainwashed and unable to identify common sense reality. It is totally amazing to me that you don't want to believe God made even you after having put this earth together. You are trying to convince us that God chooses to have little children out competing with the rats for food. Now that isn't the God that created the heavens and earth. As an aborted fetus those would be in heaven but for you cruel close minded advocates for child abuse. God is almighty inspite of you cruel people. Go tell the Upchurch ed nations of the world that you appear to think it okay for unwanted children to compete with rats for food and be used as sex toys. Even an idiot knows it isn't right to mistreat children. All the above scriptures are good for their purpose but God is looking at the whole picture. And yes, you anti abortion people are brainwashed to the point logic is meaningless to you. Oh yes,and to say the world isn't becoming over populated is talking total insanity. You people just blow my mind promoting child abuse but on the other hand indicating you are Christians . As I've mentioned before, you are of the same greater than thou bunch that put Jesus on the cross. I sure wish you would step back and really look at yourselves and the non logic you are promoting. Don't you feel at least.a little compassion for abused children, especially ones who got here because of your lack of understanding and knowing God's will and alknowing power.
Like · Reply · February 4 at 10:39pm

Dan Kranz Dave and Nick, my kinda guys.....thank you for speaking for children in the womb, for speaking against evil. God bless!
Unlike · Reply · 2 · February 4 at 10:41pm

Austin Shepherd Sad Dan that you go along with advocates of.child abuse. I hope you don't sleep well as certainly abuse children are being tortured because of your kind. Why don't you recognize God as our almighty one.
Like · Reply · February 4 at 10:48pm

Janice Toirkens Austin, Nope, you're wrong. God gives us free will. You're the one trying to brainwash people. All that crap you're talking about is the devil. That's who you are promoting. Are you a member of Westboro Baptist?
Like · Reply · February 4 at 10:51pm · Edited

Austin Shepherd God is the judge Janice Toirkens and I'm thankful that God has a plan that puts children in.heaven inspite of your non thinking opinion
Like · Reply · February 4 at 10:52pm

Janice Toirkens He is, and you are advocating the murder of innocent children.
Like · Reply · February 4 at 10:58pm

Austin Shepherd Complain to God since He makes the decision.
Like · Reply · February 4 at 11:18pm

Dan Kranz Mr. Shepard, you are advocating the murder of children in the womb plain and simple. You're rhetoric has no merit. "Partial-Birth Abortion is a procedure in which the abortionist pulls a living baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal (vagina), except for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged just inside the cervix (the opening to the womb). The abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical scissors or a pointed hollow metal tube called a trochar. He then inserts a catheter (tube) into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful suction machine. This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist completes the delivery of the now-dead baby." From conception on "Thou shalt not kill" "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion is already born" President Ronald Reagan
Like · Reply · 1 · February 5 at 12:45am

Austin Shepherd Emotions are okay but logic and reality to realize you emotional description is nasty but putting a fetus in heaven.. Common sense and reality should tell you heaven is a good place. What you want to.happen is a child be born and cast into years of abuse and torture. The.scumbag who filmed the PP footage should have, if he were actually an honest caring person, went out and filmed the children going through the.garbage for food or cuddled together with others trying to keep warm because his type helped stop the fetus from being admitted to heaven before birth. Thousands of unwanted children are living in agony day in and day out because they weren't given the opportunity to go to heaven birth. Sure wish you non thinking.anti abortion people had to go out and.actually experience living with the.cold and rats for a.few days. God made provisions for the fetus, antiabortion people work to overrule it, but it is the unwanted child that suffers. God is.almighty and also the only judge, why not follow Him?
Like · Reply · February 5 at 9:48am

Dan Kranz Austin Shepherd have you accepted Jesus as your Savior, sought forgiveness for your sins and welcomed Him into your heart. If you have not, I would be glad to share the Gospel with you privately.
Like · Reply · February 5 at 3:39pm

Patricia Camp Bain I don't even know where to Austin, I will pray for you.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · February 5 at 3:40pm

Austin Shepherd Thankyou Patricia Camp Bain, I pray for your you promoters of child.abuse to but much more for the innocent children you are forcing into a childhood of torture.
Like · Reply · February 5 at 3:48pm

Austin Shepherd Dan, you and your sick anti abortion bunch need Jesus in the worst way.I accepted Jesus into my heart at.age eight and have served him for the next 70 or so years. Your are of the same mentality as those who put Jesus on the cross. Wake up, you really need your eyes opened. Anyone who promotes child.abuse is not very nice. A fetus in heaven is no comparison to advocating child torture. When blind then you can't see sane logic.
Like · Reply · February 5 at 3:54pm

Dan Kranz You claim to be a follower of Jesus the Son of the Living God, but in the same breath advocate tearing children in the womb limb from limb, a most hideous torture if their ever was one. You have seen the videos, you know what happens to these children, they are tortured and killed, you are as guilty as the abortionist and have blood on your hands and then you try to invoke the name of God in your sick twisted barbaric "logic", unless you repent of this evil, you will be forever lost for eternity. Turn from this evil and seek forgiveness. "Their will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". How dare you call what is abhorrent and evil to our Lord good! You will be without excuse before the Judgement Seat of God.
Like · Reply · 1 · February 6 at 5:04am

Austin Shepherd If you read the story of Jesus being put on the cross then you have a picture of yourself. Those people were scumbag, bar nun but you are letting false emotions rule over common sense. If you have the ability to understand what you read I'd recommend reading about Noahs Ark and how many fetus and lives were lost. Next read about Sodam and Gamorah and with just a bit of grey matter you can figure out that fetus and humans lost their lives. Part of the point is that God controlled those incidents and has more than enough power to control abortion or any other thing He wishes to control. You can read, and I personally believe, can move mountains. He as power to do anything He wishes and He created heavens and earth and everything else but you can't comprehend that so let your emotions justify allowing unwanted children to filch with the rats for food. Five or ten seconds of pain is certainly better than years of suffering if a fetus is allowed to be born into an unwanted environment. Common sense is a practical thing but a warped uncontrolled emotional mind doesn't function properly. Look at all the healing and miracles Jesus performed but people who think like Dan or other anti abortion people are unable to look past emotion, etc and see that God is totally in control. Jesus said," forgive them for they know not what they do, " so the Dans and anti abortion people can hope it applies to them as I also think it does. Ten seconds of hideous torture is better than several years trying to survive in a hostile world. Why don't you heartless antiabortion people mount a movement to sign up people to adopt babies so they miss the abortion process and immediately get placed into a loving environment. It may sound simple but currently is totally impossible because of the high volume of births around the world. God saw this so provided for abortion. As in the case of Sodom and Gamorah, God deals harshly with non Christian society. I pray you antiabortion people will begin to understand God and His all knowing ways. Twisted and barbaric is certainly an appropriate description of the non thinking anti abortion people.
Like · Reply · February 6 at 10:21am

Nick Bell Austin, nobody here is promoting torture or child abuse. I think I speak for everyone here by saying we are against child abuse.
You seem to think that every child that is born will be abused and tortured. That is simply not true.
According to your logic, we should kill all children to save from possible child abuse.
We are against abortion for the same reason we are against child abuse, torture, and rape. Those are awful sinful acts that greatly harm an innocent human being. Scripture tells us to stand up against those things and to stop them from happening. That's what we are doing. If I saw someone abusing a child, I would top them from doing so. If I saw someone killing a child I would stop them from doing so. How is that wrong? We seek to put an end to violence.
Like · Reply · 1 · February 6 at 10:45am

Austin Shepherd That is why God, I say God, made the provision for abortion of the fetus. Your head is really in the sand if you think overruling God is going to stop what is happening. You are putting the cart before the horse. Until a workable plan is in place with thousands of responsible people and facilities in place you are continuing to promote child abuse. When you are trying to force unwanted children to be born then you are promoting.child abuse. I don't understand how you are enough to get out of bed in the morning if you can't see how you are forcing child abuse on innocent children. A fetus goes to heaven or at least if you don't believe that should see that a minute of trauma is better than several years of abuse. God is in control but you do gooders are doing just like the religious heroes that put Jesus on the cross. Our Supreme Court isn't perfect nor God fearing in my opinion but they did figure out how to protect the fetus, of course since you think it was okay to crucify Jesus you won't agree with the court either. In my opinion you should be given jail time for even for even mentioning killing children. You are committing even through and through. You talk out of both.sides of your mouth, stopping.abortion is promoting child abuse. Wake up man! Oh I know you want to get tied up in emotions but reality is fact and unwanted children are forced into abuse because they have no protection because society can only handle 5% at most of unwanted births. God has it set up to handle all unwanted fetus but you non thinking narrow minded bigots are working against Him
Like · Reply · February 6 at 12:29pm

Nick Bell Look man, me and several others have tried having civil discussions with you trying to figure out what you are talking about. You have done nothing but personally attack people trying to have a reasonable discussion with you and hurl accusations at them that utterly and ridiculously false. You are the only one here advocating for any type of violence. Nobody here supports child abuse, so I ask you to stop saying we do. You say that all children that are born are abused. That is not true. It's a terrible for people to abuse children. The solution to child abuse is not to kill the children, it is to stop and punish the abusers. Scripture tells us it is wrong to murder, that is all that prolifers are saying: that it is wrong to murder. You are saying the exact opposite. You are saying that you support murdering children to prevent them from the chance of being abused. You said that we "should be given Jail time for even mentioning killing children". This makes no sense. We are trying to STOP people from killing children. YOU are the one advocating for killing children. You say that God says killing innocent children is good and should be done, yet you have not given one iota of biblical evidence to support your claim. I, on the other hand have given you dozens and dozens of biblical references that shows that killing innocent people is wrong.
Nowhere in scripture has God said it was okay to murder innocent people. In fact, scripture says the exact opposite. There were pagan societies mentioned in scripture that sacrificed children, God said that they were wrong, yet you are promoting it as a good thing hen scripture clearly says it is wrong and God hates the shedding of innocent blood.
Like · Reply · February 6 at 1:36pm

Nick Bell Leviticus 20:2-5 states, “Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.’” Many other Old Testament passages affirm God’s zero-tolerance for child sacrifice.

Sadly, King Solomon became involved in this horrendous practice, as recorded in 1 Kings 11:4-11, “As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD. . . . On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. . . . The LORD became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the LORD’s command.”

Later, the evil king Manassah offered his own son as a sacrifice (2 Kings 21:6), as did King Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:1-4). The people of Judah participated in this crime against their own sons—a sin so “detestable” that God said it had never even crossed His mind (Jeremiah 32:35). Child sacrifice was one reason for the Babylonian captivity (verse 36).

Today, child sacrifice is practiced throughout the world. There has been a resurgence of child sacrifice in Uganda. Witch doctors have been implicated in the mutilation and death of children who were killed in an effort to bring good fortune and wealth to those willing to pay for it. There is also a correlation between child sacrifice and modern-day abortion. Unprecedented numbers of children have been “sacrificed” at the hands of abortionists for the sake of convenience, immorality, or pride. Hundreds of thousands of babies have been killed so that their parents can maintain a certain lifestyle. God hates “hands that shed innocent blood” (Proverbs 6:17), and we can be sure that God will judge this horrendous sin.

You are advocating for the very things these passages say God hates and disapproves of.

We have given nothing but scientific and biblical facts. Not opinions. All that we have said is backed by both science and scripture. Where do your logic and claims come from?
Like · Reply · February 6 at 1:39pm

Nick Bell I seriously want to understand where you are coming from. I truly do. If you are right, I want to understand your position and how it lines up with scripture and science. But I can't understand what you're saying or where you're coming from if you aren't acting civil and stop hurling accusations.
Like · Reply · February 6 at 1:43pm

Austin Shepherd I'm trying to act civil but when some brings up scriptures totally unrelated to abortion or science it gives me the care less about the issue of abortion and as related to.child abuse or science ruled on by the US Supreme Court. At least those.that crucified Jesus didn't have the court on their side as is true with the.abortion.issue
I don't understand how you continue to go.against.God. Even though unrelated to this abortion issue it points out that God of important issues. I'm sure.glad you don't believe in child.sacrefice but can promote chid.abuse. The Bible addresses abortion indirectly over and over as.examples I've pointed out but you ignore. The total proof that God approves abortion is that He allows it when He could stop is anytime. My inclination is to think you may be.playing up the issue to get the unthinking to send you money. Money is the root of all evil, at least that is the most common saying. I have helped support feeding kids in Calcutta where they were feedin.about 30,000 per day a few years back. I do still contrive but indirectly and a.very small amount so don't keep up with numbers, etc now. Anyway, you have to divide God's word rightly in order to understand how terrible you are treating unwanted children. God will do the judging no matter what you think. I hope you aren't in it for he money because I suspect God wouldn't judge you very kindly.
Like · Reply · February 6 at 4:00pm

Austin Shepherd I certainly agree and it is anyone who buys into radical antiabortion propaganda. I can't imagine a Christian that doesn't believe God has the power to control or do anything. Those smart religious leaders who put Jesus on the cross did it knowing that He healed the sick and other miracles and we have plenty of proof from seeing and experiencing particularly healing happen now. And yes Dan Kranz it is sad that you don't believe God is all powerful or maybe you haven't seen or had miracle healing. I have so know God is almighty. Thankfully I haven't run across anyone personally that believes it is okay to torture children. You are really sick but not alone as can see from the other posts. A fetus in.heaven.versus a child allowed to be born into tortures should get your kind a good stiff prison sentence.
Like · Reply · February 6 at 10:37pm

Nick Bell You do know that there is NO money to be made in being a pro-life activist, right? Those who have jobs in it hardly make any money. I've worked at local, state, and national pro-life organizations and haven't met anyone who is in it for the money. It's the exact opposite. I've actually met people who have turned down corporate jobs that paid 6 figures in order to work for the pro-life movement and make next to nothing. I honestly can't continue this dialogue. You are accusing people of things they never said, stating things that simply are not true. You have been insulting and rude and inciting violence since your very first comment. You haven't been the least bit civil or nice, even when we have been that to you. You simply have no clue what pro-life people advocate for. I assume you have met some very twisted illogical people who claim to be prolife and also support child abuse. And on behalf of all pro-life people, I apologize for the actions of those people. They do not represent any of the non-violent beliefs of the pro-life movement. I urge you to actually WATCH the video that you are commenting on. There are people in the interview that were abortion clinic directors and survivors of failed abortions. I personally know 3 of the people in the video. I think if you actually watch it, your eyes will be opened up to what exactly the pro-life movement is and what those who support life and non-violence are like. I hope that you come to an understanding of what the pro-life movement actually is and what they support. I wish you the best. God bless
Like · Reply · February 8 at 1:12pm

Austin Shepherd Facts that don't fit your model apparently sound insulting to you. What sounds insulting to me is anyone who advocates child you and your ilk are doing. I watched the movie and saw well meaning people trying to overrule God's plan and denigh ing His sovereignty. It is sad that you people are so blind that you can't look at news reports, etc.showing unwanted children suffering because your kind, in part, try to convince women to have unwanted babies that then end up uncared for. If you are insulted.because you are promoting child abuse that is good and sadly you are not being punished for such terrible behaviour. I'm sorry you but that is typically how.radicals act.
Like · Reply · February 8 at 3:12pm