An analytical response to a Pro-Choice Progressive

I recently posted a status on Facebook criticizing some of the Pro-Choice claims. It lead to a rather lengthy discussion between 4 of my friends. Two were very strong Pro-Life Advocates and two were very strong Pro-Choice advocates. This response is to the most vocal of the two Pro-Choice advocates. I broke down his claims and arguments and wrote a response to each of them. Amazingly, by the grace of God, I was able to stay calm and gently respond to his claims and arguments without getting upset or mad. This youngster is, from what I've gathered, a logical and intelligent student, and I pray that some of what I have said has some effect on him.

Note: *I use some arguments & examples in an edited form from Scott Klusendorf and Dr. Mike S. Adams, both have encouraged and taught me many things on this area. I wouldn't have been able to make this defense without them. *
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My friend, you make some great points and raise some important questions. Allow me to break each down and address and/or answer them for you. Before I answer and address what you said, I want to first lay on the table what science says on the issue, and the reasoning behind most of, if not all of my points. 

Scientifically, we know that from the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct, living, and whole human beings. Leading doctors in thee field and Embryology Text books confirm this. The science of embryology is clear. From the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct , living, and whole human beings. Therefore, every "successful" abortion ends the life of a living human being. Nothing is added to the unborn to make them “more human”. They are fully human, just as much as human as you and I are.  They just aren't as fully developed as you and I are. They are just as much human as you and I are, just at a different stage of development. In comparison: a 4 year old girl is not as fully developed as a 14 year old girl is, yet both are fully human. That is not simply my opinion, that is documented scientific truth.

Now on to your questions and points.

*”You make it seem like people who are pro-choice are pro-abortion and that's entirely false.”

Being pro-choice means that you want women to have an option, a choice, on whether they want to get an abortion (unjustly end an innocent human life) or not. Being Pro-life means that we value all human life and wish for the equal right to life for all human beings. Because if you take away that one right, all other rights are automatically taken away. So, when it all boils down, Pro-life advocates are against abortion (unjustly ending an innocent human life). Pro-Choice advocates are for the right of a mother to get an abortion (unjustly ending an innocent human life), therefore, by advocating for it, you are on the “pro” side of it. On a side note: the majority of Pro-choice advocates that I’ve met or talked with are very much Pro-abortion. They view it as no different than using a condom or taking the pill. 

*”The honest reason why people have the same process as me are simply one to keep it safe.” 

I assume you mean “safe” for the mother. But abortion, itself, is never a safe procedure. In every procedure, sans failed abortions, an innocent human life is unjustly ended. I do’t know about you, but to me, killing an innocent human being would never fall under the category of “safe”. 

  

*”Before abortions were legal people still had things like back alley abortions where a shifty guy would use a hanger or some instrument like that. This lead to the woman most often dying or being incredibly hurt....really gruesome stuff. This is why most people who are pro-choice believe that way, we need to keep something like this safe, and avoid a disaster like that from happening ever again.”

Sadly, yes, that did happen before abortion was made legal in the US in 1973. But in saying this, the assumption is made that the unborn are not human. A more understandable analogy of your argument would be: (I’m going to drive down the road to kill someone, but there is ice all over the road, I’m afraid that I might have a wreck on the way there and get hurt. Could you call the city workers to have them come put salt on the road so that I wont get hurt on my way to of from the person’s house? Im still going to kill the person, but at least I will be safe in the process.) In your argument/statement, you are saying that we should keep it legal to unjustly end the life of an innocent human being in a safe and sterile environment to avoid harming the person killing them, as would happen in a dirty filthy place such as a back alley. Where’s the logic in that?

*”Let the expected mother know what she is going through”

I completely agree with you. A mother should know what is going to happen in the procedure before she agrees to do it. Sadly, in the majority of abortion clinics, especially Planed Parenthood, they do not explain to the mother what the procedure is. Ive talked with several women that have either had abortions or had been to get an abortion and then decided not to. They said that they were not shown an ultrasound, or told what the procedure would do. In one person I talked to, she said that although the abortion doctor did an ultrasound, he purposely stood in front of the screen so that she could not see it, and he told her that there was nothing but a glob of tissue. He also talked loud during the ultrasound so that she wouldn't hear the heartbeat. She went to the hospital the same day and saw her child through an ultrasound and listened to the heartbeat. She decided to not go through with the procedure after seeing and hearing these things. This is not an isolated incident, I've heard dozens upon dozens of accounts almost identical to this one from all across the country. Why, you might ask, do the abortion doctors lie and deceive the women like this? Money. The approximate cost for an abortion is between $400-500. The doctors make a profit from this. If they actually told what the procedure would do and actually showed the women the ultrasound, most women, after seeing the child and hearing the heartbeat, would change their minds about the abortion. And thus the abortion doctors would not make any money, save for the small visit fee.   


“Other reasons are obvious, like in the horrific event of rape or incest. How can we as human beings tell a woman who was raped that they now have to carry that burden, and that reminder of the most likely single most horrific event that has ever happened to her in her life. We can't! That would be appalling to even suggest that the woman has to keep it.”

Good point. Rape is terrible. I consider it to be the worst crime, after murder, that is. I advocate for the male to be castrated in punishment for the crime, as well as a long jail sentence.  It is an absolutely horrible crime and nobody should ever have to experience it. You're saying that if a woman becomes pregnant as the result of rape, she should get an abortion. So, you're suggesting that because an evil man commits an extremely terrible act of violence on an innocent woman, then the woman should in turn  commit an extremely terrible act of violence on another innocent human being that results in that human being’s life being ended. If anyone should have their life ended over rape, it should be the rapist, not the innocent child.
As for the child reminding her of the horrific incident, let me ask you something: should we be allowed to kill other human beings simply because they remind of us of a horrible event that happened to us? Lets say that a woman is raped and doesn't get pregnant, and it just so happens that her boss looks similar to the rapist, and everyday at work she is reminded of that horrible incident because her boss resembles the rapist. Should she be allowed to kill her boss, n innocent human being, simply because he reminds her of that horrible attack? 
Luckily, less than 1% of abortions are done on women who became pregnant as the result of rape, so that is a very small issue.
I propose to you an offer:  If I agree to write in the exception for rape , will you lobby with me for the law banning all other abortions (99% of the ones performed) ?

*”Another pretty valid point are the legislators that claim themselves as pro-life consistently vote down child welfare services. So, how can they say we need to protect that child as much as we can while in womb, but when it comes out, if the parents can't afford it, that's on them, maybe the shouldn't have had the kid in the first place. The pro-life concepts don't make a lot of sense in that regard.”

An EXCELLENT point my friend! And that, I agree with you 100%. It makes no sense whatsoever! We should make every effort to protect the children at all stages of development, not just in the womb. Thats why I cannot stand politicians, they dont make sense and they! HA! As the late Whitney Houston so eloquently put it, I believe the children are our future. We should protect them at all costs at all stages of their life . 

*”The MOST obvious [reason], mother endangerment”

This too is something I agree with you on. But I believe you are mistaken about. Yes, I believe that if the mother’s life is at risk and if continuing to carry the child or giving birth would kill her, then I believe that her life should be saved. I haven't met any Pro-life advocates that would disagree. The child will die either way, so you are saving the only life you can. I use the analogy that if 2 kids are going down stream towards a waterfall, and you go in to save them, but because of the current, you only have time to save one, you save the one that easiest to save and that is closest to you. You aren't going in with the intention of taking a life, you are going in with the intention of saving a life. The other life that is lost is an unintentional and unavoidable consequence.
Also, even if abortion were made illegal, this would in no way affect this life saving procedure. These procedures are done in hospitals or women’s clinics by medical doctors who are trying to save the woman’s life. Ive never heard of an abortion doctor doing one of these life saving procedures. I have a friend who is an OBGYN here in Starkville and the Medical Director of the Starkville Pregnancy Care Center, and I've talked to him about this issue and how he handles it. He agrees and says that it is a last resort procedure they do to save the mother’s life and that those cases are rare. So the legalization or ilegalization of abortion would have no affect whatsoever on this procedure. 

*”...people who have the ability to have the keep and could afford it or giving it up for adoption, and they have an abortion, that's pretty twisted.”

Yes, that is pretty twisted. But sadly, that is the case with the majority of people who get abortions in the US. They use abortion as a form of birth control. I believe that adoption is the best choice in the situations where the parents cannot provide for the children. 
In their annual report released in 2010, Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion provider, did 392 abortions per every 1 adoption referral. 

*”You and I probably shouldn't have too much input on a subject like this because after all, we can never get pregnant. This is women's rights issue, and men trying to legislate it just doesn't make sense!”

I see your point, and I would agree with you IF this really were a women’s rights issue. The claim that abortion (unjustly ending an innocent human life) is a women’s rights issue couldn't be farther from the truth. It is, in fact, a human rights issue. Since abortion was made legal in the US in 1973, over 55 Million innocent human beings have been killed. Half of those innocent human beings (approximately 27.5 Million) have been male. This doesn't just concern women, it concerns men as well. Regardless of the gender, nobody should have the right to unjustly take the life of an innocent human being.   

*”We can not for a single second compare abortions to the holocaust.”

Why can’t we? Approximately 6 million innocent human beings were killed in the Holocaust. Around 55 Million innocent human beings were/are being killed through abortion. The death toll of abortion is approximately 9 times higher than that of the Holocaust.
Now, I will grant that the torture and brutality of the Jews before they were killed is horrific, and in comparison, abortion seems like a more merciful way to kill someone. Although it has been proven that in surgical abortions past 8 weeks, the child can actually feel pain and can feel the pain of its arms and legs being ripped from their bodies. That sounds horrific too.
So, when comparing just the death tolls, abortion would be considered 9 times worse than the holocaust.
Not to mention that the US’s largest abortion provider started out as a machine for eugenics, ridding the nation of the undesirable people, most notably, blacks. Their early founders had numerous links to the KKK and the Nazi Party, and even Hitler and Himmler. They still do, in some forms, still function today with a racist agenda. But that is a whole other can of worms that can be saved for a later discussion. (If you are interested, I suggest you watch “Maafa 21: Black Genocide in 21st Century America”. 

Thanks for your input in this discussion, and I apologize for the delayed response. I hope you have a blessed summer! =)  
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As you can see, every response comes back to the question, are the unborn human? If they are not human, than abortion isnt wrong at all and should be legal, but if the unborn are human, then abortion is Very wrong and should be made illegal and the unborn should be protected at all cost! 



*Update: I received a response to this from the guy it was written to. He was telling g someone about it and tagged me in it.:
 "Nick Bell and I were In a debate about abortion recently in a status he published. Nick and I threw some good points at each other in a non-offensive way, some things we actually agreed on. There were people in the thread obviously offended but, in his argument he opened my mind to think about my stance on the issue, I am still pro-choice, but he brought up valid points. Opening people to think works in many ways."

I praise God that his mind was opened to think about and consider some of his ideas!

Why do we fall?

Last night I had another episode of spiritual warfare. I hadn't had my quiet time where I meditate/ pray in depth or actually sat down to study my bible for a length of time in about a week and I had been feeling guilty about. So I went upstairs where I have cleared out a quiet place which has a coffee table where I can study the Word, a bed where I can rest, and a weight bench where I can work. I started my meditation prayer which was amazing and then I sat down read through Luke. That's when I got distracted by the flesh. My skin on my arms was peeling from a bad sunburn I got a week prior from mowing the yard with my sleeves rolled up. I spent about 10 minutes peeling the sunburn. That flesh was quite distracting (pun intended).  Anyhow, I read through a chapter and then I started getting sleepy. So I went downstairs to go to sleep. I messaged a friend on Facebook before I went to sleep and they replied. The reply, although not related at all, reminded me of the awful breakup I went through last year. My mind started racing and I started feeling sick. The devil was bring back these old painful feelings and memories that I had buried deep in my pit of despair that The Lord had miraculously brought me out of and saved my life. I made the mistake of reading a post on her blog about her bragging about her new boyfriend and she had all these pictures of her and him hugging on each other and her talking about how they have  been together for 10 months, ect... I became so upset. I don't have feelings for her anymore after what she did to me, and I don't think about her anymore. God has brought me out of that. But I was furious and jealous because this girl, the girl I dated for over a year, the girl I almost married, the girl I gave my heart to, she never once posted any pictures of her and I publicly or mentioned me publicly. Yet here she was rambling on about a guy that she has only been with a short time. Heck, I had her ring picked out and everything when she left me. 

As I may have mentioned, I have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) which I was diagnosed with at a young age and have been hospitalized & medicated for. I've struggled with it for my whole life. And one of the things that I have problems with is if something is unfinished. Everything needs to be finished. Well, with that relationship, it still isn't finished, so to speak. There was no closure. No reason. Just an unfinished railroad track. God brought me out of all that and has healed me more than I ever thought possible, but he put a temporary end cap on that unfinished railroad track. And this is the second time the evil one has ripped that cap off and has caused a train wreck in my mind. The lack of closure that she continues to torture me with for over a year is usually at bay, but not last night. It was ripped off like a scab and the sore and wounded skin was exposed. Questions began circling in my head. They were legitimate questions that I had, many of them buried, but the evil one was bringing them back up. Why wasn't I good enough? Why wasn't I good-looking enough for her or her patents? Why did she lie to and betray me? Why did she refuse to bring closure to our relationship? Out of all that she did to me, the least she could've done was give me closure. And she knew how my mind works, she knew I needed closure and she told me she wasn't going to give it to me. Why did she continue to torture me? I now know that I will never receive that closure, and even if she read this and felt inclined to give me closure, that would just make things worse. The only way for that end cap on the railroad to be permanently fixed would be for The Lord to bring the One he has planned for me to fix it. Only then will it heal. Until it heals, I will always have that brokenness. And she can live on in her happy new life knowing that she brought me to my lowest, that she broke me more than anything, that because of the refusal to bring closure, she chose to continue to torture me every day of my life until I am married to the One The Lord has planned for me, because only then will that wound be healed. And I know that The Lord will heal it. But I just hope it isn't too long until he does. But then again, I know that his timing is perfect. 

I realized last week that it was the Lord's will for her to break me. He allowed me to fall into that pit of agony and despair. He allowed me to fall so that he could pick me back up and bring me higher and closer to Him and he gave me new purpose. Right after the breakup he convicted me of my new purpose. A purpose that would save lives both physically and sometimes spiritually. While in the beautiful mountains of Colorado, while studying at Summit Ministries, he showed me my new purpose. He told me what to do. He told me atop those mountains his will for what I should do. He told me to stand up, to stand up and fight for his children to be free. He told me to standup for his children that were being killed by the thousands every day in my country. He told me to study and he put mentors and teachers in my path to teach and guide me into the path that he had planned for me. I've been attacked, threatened, harassed, and have lost so many friends for my decision to respond to what he told me to do. But it doesn't bother me, I, like The Lord's brother James says, "consider it pure joy" whenever I face trials of many kinds. I know that the testing of my faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that I may be mature and complete, not lacking of anything. I welcome the opposition and in times when I have been in doubt, The Lord has miraculously used random people around me to encourage me and tell me to stay strong in the fight for the Unborn. 

Anywho, back to last night. When all of this attacking me, I got out of bed and kneeled on my knees and just started praying. At the same time, my friend who I was messaging, sent me a message that encouraged me and made me realize things. I felt the Lord's arm wrapped around me comforting me while I was kneeling on my bedside. It was amazing. I continued to talk to my friend until around 3:30 am! They are unlike anyone I've ever met. They are so in-tune spiritually with the Lord and the Holy Spirit speaks through them every time I talk to them. They have the ability to know when something is bothering or affecting me without even seeing or talking to me, they can just tell. God has blessed them with so many spiritual gifts it is unbelievable. I long for that strong close intimacy that they have with The Lord on a daily basis. An intimacy that satisfies them wholly and makes the thought of dating or marriage almost an after thought. I want that and I am jealous of that! I ask for prayer for that from whoever is reading this. 

On a lighter note, when I started writing this almost  2 hours ago, I was angry, upset, and in pain, but as I wrote this, not knowing exactly what I was going to write, I realized my mood changing. I felt at peace and comforted. I don't even remember writing the third paragraph, I just remember feeling healed once again by The Lord. Thee first to paragraphs were written while I was emotional and in pain, they were the angry upset "flesh" part of me. The third paragraph on is after The Lord sat by my side helping me and comforting me. It is my hope, love, and spiritual desires for The Lord. I do apologize for the harshness of the first two paragraphs, they were written from an angry broken heart. They might've sounded harsh but they were true. Ive thought about removing them from this, but then I realized that without writing out my problems and pains, I wouldn't have found the comfort and healing in His arms, and the realization that he has given me new purpose. I now thank him for using her to break my heart, because if my heart hadn't have been broken, he wouldn't have brought about new purpose and desire to serve and grow closer to Him. And thank you Katherine for breaking my heart last year.  I have realized that he blessed me with meeting and making so many good friends at Summit, the position of President of MSU Students For Life, being a part of the group that is bringing about the new Starkville Pregnancy Care Center, being a mentor to several young believers that are thirsty for the Living Water of The Lord, and the amazing new friends I have made through Bible Studies this year.  All of these things came into play somehow or another because of what you did to me. So, as cruel as it was, I thank you, and for the first time I can finally say that I forgive you! =)

I am blessed beyond all means and what I have far outweighs that of things of this earth! When any of you are at the lowest you can possibly go, ask yourself one question: 

Why do we fall? We fall so that we can learn that God can pick us back up.