An analytical response to a Pro-Choice Progressive

I recently posted a status on Facebook criticizing some of the Pro-Choice claims. It lead to a rather lengthy discussion between 4 of my friends. Two were very strong Pro-Life Advocates and two were very strong Pro-Choice advocates. This response is to the most vocal of the two Pro-Choice advocates. I broke down his claims and arguments and wrote a response to each of them. Amazingly, by the grace of God, I was able to stay calm and gently respond to his claims and arguments without getting upset or mad. This youngster is, from what I've gathered, a logical and intelligent student, and I pray that some of what I have said has some effect on him.

Note: *I use some arguments & examples in an edited form from Scott Klusendorf and Dr. Mike S. Adams, both have encouraged and taught me many things on this area. I wouldn't have been able to make this defense without them. *
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My friend, you make some great points and raise some important questions. Allow me to break each down and address and/or answer them for you. Before I answer and address what you said, I want to first lay on the table what science says on the issue, and the reasoning behind most of, if not all of my points. 

Scientifically, we know that from the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct, living, and whole human beings. Leading doctors in thee field and Embryology Text books confirm this. The science of embryology is clear. From the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct , living, and whole human beings. Therefore, every "successful" abortion ends the life of a living human being. Nothing is added to the unborn to make them “more human”. They are fully human, just as much as human as you and I are.  They just aren't as fully developed as you and I are. They are just as much human as you and I are, just at a different stage of development. In comparison: a 4 year old girl is not as fully developed as a 14 year old girl is, yet both are fully human. That is not simply my opinion, that is documented scientific truth.

Now on to your questions and points.

*”You make it seem like people who are pro-choice are pro-abortion and that's entirely false.”

Being pro-choice means that you want women to have an option, a choice, on whether they want to get an abortion (unjustly end an innocent human life) or not. Being Pro-life means that we value all human life and wish for the equal right to life for all human beings. Because if you take away that one right, all other rights are automatically taken away. So, when it all boils down, Pro-life advocates are against abortion (unjustly ending an innocent human life). Pro-Choice advocates are for the right of a mother to get an abortion (unjustly ending an innocent human life), therefore, by advocating for it, you are on the “pro” side of it. On a side note: the majority of Pro-choice advocates that I’ve met or talked with are very much Pro-abortion. They view it as no different than using a condom or taking the pill. 

*”The honest reason why people have the same process as me are simply one to keep it safe.” 

I assume you mean “safe” for the mother. But abortion, itself, is never a safe procedure. In every procedure, sans failed abortions, an innocent human life is unjustly ended. I do’t know about you, but to me, killing an innocent human being would never fall under the category of “safe”. 

  

*”Before abortions were legal people still had things like back alley abortions where a shifty guy would use a hanger or some instrument like that. This lead to the woman most often dying or being incredibly hurt....really gruesome stuff. This is why most people who are pro-choice believe that way, we need to keep something like this safe, and avoid a disaster like that from happening ever again.”

Sadly, yes, that did happen before abortion was made legal in the US in 1973. But in saying this, the assumption is made that the unborn are not human. A more understandable analogy of your argument would be: (I’m going to drive down the road to kill someone, but there is ice all over the road, I’m afraid that I might have a wreck on the way there and get hurt. Could you call the city workers to have them come put salt on the road so that I wont get hurt on my way to of from the person’s house? Im still going to kill the person, but at least I will be safe in the process.) In your argument/statement, you are saying that we should keep it legal to unjustly end the life of an innocent human being in a safe and sterile environment to avoid harming the person killing them, as would happen in a dirty filthy place such as a back alley. Where’s the logic in that?

*”Let the expected mother know what she is going through”

I completely agree with you. A mother should know what is going to happen in the procedure before she agrees to do it. Sadly, in the majority of abortion clinics, especially Planed Parenthood, they do not explain to the mother what the procedure is. Ive talked with several women that have either had abortions or had been to get an abortion and then decided not to. They said that they were not shown an ultrasound, or told what the procedure would do. In one person I talked to, she said that although the abortion doctor did an ultrasound, he purposely stood in front of the screen so that she could not see it, and he told her that there was nothing but a glob of tissue. He also talked loud during the ultrasound so that she wouldn't hear the heartbeat. She went to the hospital the same day and saw her child through an ultrasound and listened to the heartbeat. She decided to not go through with the procedure after seeing and hearing these things. This is not an isolated incident, I've heard dozens upon dozens of accounts almost identical to this one from all across the country. Why, you might ask, do the abortion doctors lie and deceive the women like this? Money. The approximate cost for an abortion is between $400-500. The doctors make a profit from this. If they actually told what the procedure would do and actually showed the women the ultrasound, most women, after seeing the child and hearing the heartbeat, would change their minds about the abortion. And thus the abortion doctors would not make any money, save for the small visit fee.   


“Other reasons are obvious, like in the horrific event of rape or incest. How can we as human beings tell a woman who was raped that they now have to carry that burden, and that reminder of the most likely single most horrific event that has ever happened to her in her life. We can't! That would be appalling to even suggest that the woman has to keep it.”

Good point. Rape is terrible. I consider it to be the worst crime, after murder, that is. I advocate for the male to be castrated in punishment for the crime, as well as a long jail sentence.  It is an absolutely horrible crime and nobody should ever have to experience it. You're saying that if a woman becomes pregnant as the result of rape, she should get an abortion. So, you're suggesting that because an evil man commits an extremely terrible act of violence on an innocent woman, then the woman should in turn  commit an extremely terrible act of violence on another innocent human being that results in that human being’s life being ended. If anyone should have their life ended over rape, it should be the rapist, not the innocent child.
As for the child reminding her of the horrific incident, let me ask you something: should we be allowed to kill other human beings simply because they remind of us of a horrible event that happened to us? Lets say that a woman is raped and doesn't get pregnant, and it just so happens that her boss looks similar to the rapist, and everyday at work she is reminded of that horrible incident because her boss resembles the rapist. Should she be allowed to kill her boss, n innocent human being, simply because he reminds her of that horrible attack? 
Luckily, less than 1% of abortions are done on women who became pregnant as the result of rape, so that is a very small issue.
I propose to you an offer:  If I agree to write in the exception for rape , will you lobby with me for the law banning all other abortions (99% of the ones performed) ?

*”Another pretty valid point are the legislators that claim themselves as pro-life consistently vote down child welfare services. So, how can they say we need to protect that child as much as we can while in womb, but when it comes out, if the parents can't afford it, that's on them, maybe the shouldn't have had the kid in the first place. The pro-life concepts don't make a lot of sense in that regard.”

An EXCELLENT point my friend! And that, I agree with you 100%. It makes no sense whatsoever! We should make every effort to protect the children at all stages of development, not just in the womb. Thats why I cannot stand politicians, they dont make sense and they! HA! As the late Whitney Houston so eloquently put it, I believe the children are our future. We should protect them at all costs at all stages of their life . 

*”The MOST obvious [reason], mother endangerment”

This too is something I agree with you on. But I believe you are mistaken about. Yes, I believe that if the mother’s life is at risk and if continuing to carry the child or giving birth would kill her, then I believe that her life should be saved. I haven't met any Pro-life advocates that would disagree. The child will die either way, so you are saving the only life you can. I use the analogy that if 2 kids are going down stream towards a waterfall, and you go in to save them, but because of the current, you only have time to save one, you save the one that easiest to save and that is closest to you. You aren't going in with the intention of taking a life, you are going in with the intention of saving a life. The other life that is lost is an unintentional and unavoidable consequence.
Also, even if abortion were made illegal, this would in no way affect this life saving procedure. These procedures are done in hospitals or women’s clinics by medical doctors who are trying to save the woman’s life. Ive never heard of an abortion doctor doing one of these life saving procedures. I have a friend who is an OBGYN here in Starkville and the Medical Director of the Starkville Pregnancy Care Center, and I've talked to him about this issue and how he handles it. He agrees and says that it is a last resort procedure they do to save the mother’s life and that those cases are rare. So the legalization or ilegalization of abortion would have no affect whatsoever on this procedure. 

*”...people who have the ability to have the keep and could afford it or giving it up for adoption, and they have an abortion, that's pretty twisted.”

Yes, that is pretty twisted. But sadly, that is the case with the majority of people who get abortions in the US. They use abortion as a form of birth control. I believe that adoption is the best choice in the situations where the parents cannot provide for the children. 
In their annual report released in 2010, Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion provider, did 392 abortions per every 1 adoption referral. 

*”You and I probably shouldn't have too much input on a subject like this because after all, we can never get pregnant. This is women's rights issue, and men trying to legislate it just doesn't make sense!”

I see your point, and I would agree with you IF this really were a women’s rights issue. The claim that abortion (unjustly ending an innocent human life) is a women’s rights issue couldn't be farther from the truth. It is, in fact, a human rights issue. Since abortion was made legal in the US in 1973, over 55 Million innocent human beings have been killed. Half of those innocent human beings (approximately 27.5 Million) have been male. This doesn't just concern women, it concerns men as well. Regardless of the gender, nobody should have the right to unjustly take the life of an innocent human being.   

*”We can not for a single second compare abortions to the holocaust.”

Why can’t we? Approximately 6 million innocent human beings were killed in the Holocaust. Around 55 Million innocent human beings were/are being killed through abortion. The death toll of abortion is approximately 9 times higher than that of the Holocaust.
Now, I will grant that the torture and brutality of the Jews before they were killed is horrific, and in comparison, abortion seems like a more merciful way to kill someone. Although it has been proven that in surgical abortions past 8 weeks, the child can actually feel pain and can feel the pain of its arms and legs being ripped from their bodies. That sounds horrific too.
So, when comparing just the death tolls, abortion would be considered 9 times worse than the holocaust.
Not to mention that the US’s largest abortion provider started out as a machine for eugenics, ridding the nation of the undesirable people, most notably, blacks. Their early founders had numerous links to the KKK and the Nazi Party, and even Hitler and Himmler. They still do, in some forms, still function today with a racist agenda. But that is a whole other can of worms that can be saved for a later discussion. (If you are interested, I suggest you watch “Maafa 21: Black Genocide in 21st Century America”. 

Thanks for your input in this discussion, and I apologize for the delayed response. I hope you have a blessed summer! =)  
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As you can see, every response comes back to the question, are the unborn human? If they are not human, than abortion isnt wrong at all and should be legal, but if the unborn are human, then abortion is Very wrong and should be made illegal and the unborn should be protected at all cost! 



*Update: I received a response to this from the guy it was written to. He was telling g someone about it and tagged me in it.:
 "Nick Bell and I were In a debate about abortion recently in a status he published. Nick and I threw some good points at each other in a non-offensive way, some things we actually agreed on. There were people in the thread obviously offended but, in his argument he opened my mind to think about my stance on the issue, I am still pro-choice, but he brought up valid points. Opening people to think works in many ways."

I praise God that his mind was opened to think about and consider some of his ideas!